WEBVTT 00:00.620 --> 00:02.787 Hey , this is Chap and Tony Rep here . 00:02.787 --> 00:04.787 I just want to remind you that this 00:04.787 --> 00:06.953 podcast does not imply any endorsement 00:06.953 --> 00:08.787 of any commercial organization , 00:08.787 --> 00:12.050 product or belief system . Well , 00:12.060 --> 00:14.171 everybody , welcome back again to the 00:14.171 --> 00:16.282 balance of podcast . This is Chaplain 00:16.282 --> 00:18.282 Tony Rep out of Bidle International 00:18.282 --> 00:20.116 Guard base in the 111 tackling , 00:20.116 --> 00:22.116 delivering some good content to you 00:22.116 --> 00:24.282 that's faced there , surrounded around 00:24.282 --> 00:26.504 those four domains of comprehensive air 00:26.504 --> 00:28.504 and fitness , our mental , social , 00:28.504 --> 00:30.560 spiritual , physical health . Um I'm 00:30.560 --> 00:32.727 excited about the , uh , the gentleman 00:32.727 --> 00:34.949 I have sitting across from me today . I 00:34.949 --> 00:34.509 know you can't see him but you're gonna 00:34.520 --> 00:36.631 hear his voice . You'll see a picture 00:36.631 --> 00:38.798 of him there . Um If you're looking at 00:38.798 --> 00:40.853 this on youtube , um , the gentleman 00:40.853 --> 00:42.909 from the 1 93rd master Sergeant Sean 00:42.909 --> 00:45.020 Jacobs . And , um , we're gonna get a 00:45.020 --> 00:47.242 little opportunity to know him a little 00:47.242 --> 00:47.049 better today and , and just as a uh a 00:47.319 --> 00:49.152 segue into this , we're gonna be 00:49.152 --> 00:51.319 talking about mental health resiliency 00:51.549 --> 00:54.299 and what Sean says , uh leadership with 00:54.310 --> 00:56.532 the big L so more , more , more to come 00:56.532 --> 00:58.699 on that . So again , I hope you really 00:58.699 --> 01:00.921 enjoy this , this podcast . You'll take 01:00.921 --> 01:03.143 something from this but master sergeant 01:03.143 --> 01:05.143 um Sean Jacobs is with us and , and 01:05.143 --> 01:07.199 Sean . So , hey man , thanks so much 01:07.199 --> 01:06.620 for being here today for driving out 01:06.629 --> 01:08.518 here from , from Harrisburg State 01:08.518 --> 01:10.851 College all the way out to Philadelphia . 01:10.851 --> 01:12.962 So thank you for being here . Hey , I 01:12.962 --> 01:15.185 could not be happier to be here today . 01:15.185 --> 01:18.269 I literally love uh this topic and I 01:18.279 --> 01:20.779 love the idea uh that I can share it 01:20.790 --> 01:22.901 with you today . Uh It's motivating , 01:22.901 --> 01:25.123 get me up at three o'clock this morning 01:25.123 --> 01:27.179 to get over here so I can uh talk to 01:27.179 --> 01:27.040 you . Wonderful people . Nice man . 01:27.050 --> 01:29.161 That's great . So I guess just for so 01:29.161 --> 01:31.328 the audience knows , um obviously they 01:31.328 --> 01:33.383 know you're a master sergeant in the 01:33.383 --> 01:33.300 Air Force . That's about all they know 01:33.330 --> 01:35.552 gi give us a little bit of background . 01:35.552 --> 01:37.663 Um How long you've been in ? Um maybe 01:37.663 --> 01:39.774 your , your career navigation . You , 01:39.774 --> 01:41.830 you have a family , just some things 01:41.830 --> 01:44.163 that to get to know you a little better . 01:44.163 --> 01:46.330 Absolutely . So , uh my background , I 01:46.330 --> 01:47.886 am a Pennsylvanian uh by uh 01:47.886 --> 01:49.941 naturalization . I grew up here just 01:49.941 --> 01:52.163 outside of Carlisle , Pennsylvania , uh 01:52.163 --> 01:54.610 Cumberland County . Um I left for the 01:54.620 --> 01:56.842 Air Force a little bit later than , and 01:56.842 --> 01:59.110 most people do uh active duty in about 01:59.120 --> 02:01.453 2008 . I was 22 years old when I joined . 02:01.453 --> 02:04.319 I just turned 22 and I spent six years 02:04.330 --> 02:06.550 active duty . Uh my first duty station 02:06.559 --> 02:08.670 um after intelligence school , as was 02:08.670 --> 02:11.229 my A FSC is I wanna know uh in 02:11.240 --> 02:13.296 Operations Intel , also known as All 02:13.296 --> 02:15.100 Source Intel these days uh was 02:15.110 --> 02:17.166 Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska . 02:17.169 --> 02:19.502 And that was four years of an adventure . 02:19.502 --> 02:21.502 It was an amazing time . One of the 02:21.509 --> 02:24.190 best times of my life uh decided to 02:24.199 --> 02:26.770 have the inspiration to drive the whole 02:26.779 --> 02:28.835 way up there and drive the whole way 02:28.835 --> 02:30.890 back . So we took , we took the camp 02:30.890 --> 02:33.289 about a 7000 mile journey . Uh , myself 02:33.300 --> 02:36.940 and my ex-wife , um , from 2009 to 02:36.949 --> 02:40.009 about 2 2013 , I uh was stationed up 02:40.020 --> 02:42.242 there and I , I loved it . I worked for 02:42.242 --> 02:44.464 the 6/11 A OC , uh watching the Russian 02:44.464 --> 02:47.100 Bear for a living . Uh , and then IP CS 02:47.110 --> 02:49.160 to Tal Air Force Base , uh Florida 02:49.169 --> 02:52.460 around 2013 and 2014 . And , uh right 02:52.470 --> 02:54.637 before I got hit by a hurricane . So I 02:54.637 --> 02:56.859 wasn't there for that and it was around 02:56.859 --> 02:58.859 that time . Uh , my life started to 02:58.859 --> 03:01.026 change and I went from what I was very 03:01.026 --> 03:03.192 comfortable with , with in , in my air 03:03.192 --> 03:05.303 force career as a senior . And , um , 03:05.303 --> 03:07.526 at this point , uh , myself , my wife , 03:07.526 --> 03:09.637 we went down there and , um , kind of 03:09.637 --> 03:11.869 started to grow apart and since then , 03:11.880 --> 03:14.102 which we'll get into later , that was a 03:14.102 --> 03:16.102 rough patch of my life . And , uh , 03:16.102 --> 03:18.324 that I'm here to talk about today . But 03:18.324 --> 03:18.240 since then I've moved back to 03:18.250 --> 03:20.583 Pennsylvania around 2015 . I joined the , 03:20.583 --> 03:22.194 the wonderful members of the 03:22.194 --> 03:24.361 Pennsylvania Air National Guard in the 03:24.361 --> 03:26.417 1 93rd Special Operation Wing and uh 03:26.417 --> 03:28.583 specifically the 1 93rd Air Operations 03:28.583 --> 03:30.806 Group in uh State College right next to 03:30.806 --> 03:32.806 Penn State . Uh , and we're in a OC 03:32.806 --> 03:34.806 integration unit and I've spent the 03:34.806 --> 03:36.861 last almost eight years there . Uh I 03:36.861 --> 03:39.028 was a DS G for a little while and went 03:39.028 --> 03:41.139 to M um Shippensburg University . But 03:41.139 --> 03:43.417 then I um after a deployment out to LU , 03:43.417 --> 03:45.472 I decided to take a full time job up 03:45.472 --> 03:47.639 there as the NC IC of intel training . 03:47.639 --> 03:49.806 And I've been there since about 2017 , 03:49.806 --> 03:51.806 full time . And uh I have , uh I've 03:51.806 --> 03:53.917 been remarried . I have two wonderful 03:53.917 --> 03:55.861 Children . Uh 11 year old daughter 03:55.861 --> 03:57.861 named Emma and a three year old son 03:57.861 --> 03:59.861 named Kieran . Uh My wife's name is 03:59.861 --> 04:01.806 Ashley . We actually dated in high 04:01.806 --> 04:03.806 school and got back together when I 04:03.806 --> 04:05.861 came back to Pennsylvania and I just 04:05.861 --> 04:07.472 love it up there . I love uh 04:07.472 --> 04:09.028 interacting in the state of 04:09.028 --> 04:11.194 Pennsylvania . And to be honest , I've 04:11.194 --> 04:13.306 done a lot more traveling as a guards 04:13.306 --> 04:15.583 member than I ever did as member . Yes , 04:15.583 --> 04:17.750 we have just this year . I've been 3.5 04:17.750 --> 04:19.972 months in uh Europe , uh supporting our 04:19.972 --> 04:22.194 state partnership as well as our uh AFC 04:22.194 --> 04:24.417 over there dealing with the command and 04:24.417 --> 04:26.306 control of uh supporting our NATO 04:26.306 --> 04:28.194 partners . Um when it comes to uh 04:28.194 --> 04:30.250 what's going on in Ukraine and other 04:30.250 --> 04:32.139 interests that we have in Eastern 04:32.139 --> 04:34.194 Europe . Uh and it has been absolute 04:34.194 --> 04:36.361 blessing . And at the same time , it's 04:36.361 --> 04:38.583 also been the biggest opportunity of my 04:38.583 --> 04:40.694 life is to serve others . And uh just 04:40.694 --> 04:42.694 finding new ways to do that is what 04:42.694 --> 04:44.972 excites me . That's awesome . And yeah , 04:44.972 --> 04:47.194 and what's a unique experience that you 04:47.194 --> 04:46.880 bring is , you know , you were active 04:46.929 --> 04:49.700 duty , came over the guard . Um , the 04:49.709 --> 04:51.820 guard to me is , is the , the , the , 04:51.820 --> 04:53.709 this hidden gem that people don't 04:53.709 --> 04:55.876 realize . It's , it is the best of the 04:55.876 --> 04:57.876 best to be . Just my opinion . I've 04:57.876 --> 04:59.931 been in the guard my whole life army 04:59.931 --> 05:01.820 and air in Pennsylvania . But the 05:01.820 --> 05:01.739 opportunities are , are unbelievable . 05:01.750 --> 05:03.694 They're numerous . And um I got to 05:03.694 --> 05:05.694 travel the world too . I've been in 05:05.694 --> 05:07.694 eight different countries . So it's 05:07.694 --> 05:07.220 kind of cool . There's some active duty 05:07.230 --> 05:09.341 folks don't get a chance to do that . 05:09.341 --> 05:11.341 So , um Sean , thanks for sharing a 05:11.341 --> 05:11.230 little bit just about your background . 05:11.239 --> 05:14.100 Again . It's um you're a senior NCO 05:14.109 --> 05:16.339 here uh serving your , your country , 05:16.350 --> 05:18.609 the commonwealth of Pennsylvania . Um 05:18.869 --> 05:20.980 And so , you know , you were starting 05:20.980 --> 05:23.091 to share with me and I'm , I'm glad I 05:23.091 --> 05:22.760 stopped you initially because I don't 05:22.769 --> 05:24.713 know your story and this is what's 05:24.713 --> 05:26.713 awesome about being able to connect 05:26.713 --> 05:28.880 with people and connect with Airman is 05:28.880 --> 05:30.991 I know you have a powerful story . Um 05:30.991 --> 05:33.047 And you know , we want you to talk a 05:33.047 --> 05:35.213 little bit about that today . So , you 05:35.213 --> 05:34.609 know , mental health , there's still a 05:34.619 --> 05:36.897 stigma . Let's be , let's just be real . 05:36.897 --> 05:39.008 There's still a stigma I deal with it 05:39.008 --> 05:41.450 every day working with um top secret 05:41.459 --> 05:43.681 clearance folks who are worried about , 05:43.720 --> 05:45.776 am I gonna lose my , you know , am I 05:45.776 --> 05:47.553 gonna lose my clearance ? Can I 05:47.553 --> 05:49.498 continue to serve ? And we have to 05:49.498 --> 05:51.776 continue to work through and past this ? 05:51.776 --> 05:54.089 And it takes guys like yourself um to 05:54.100 --> 05:56.459 have the experience with some of these 05:56.470 --> 05:58.709 challenges and as a senior leader to to 05:58.720 --> 06:00.664 get in front of airman . So talk a 06:00.664 --> 06:02.776 little bit about mental health , what 06:02.776 --> 06:05.053 it means to you and , and sort of your , 06:05.053 --> 06:07.164 your own journey with mental health . 06:07.164 --> 06:09.100 So I'd like to start to caveat uh 06:09.109 --> 06:11.119 mental health . Absolutely not a 06:11.130 --> 06:13.130 subject matter expert in any of the 06:13.130 --> 06:15.799 fields . Uh Whether it comes to how we 06:15.809 --> 06:17.820 do things uh in the Dod or the Air 06:17.829 --> 06:21.140 Force , what I am an expert is in life 06:21.149 --> 06:24.079 experience and my own experience , in 06:24.100 --> 06:26.809 my opinion , because working in the 06:26.820 --> 06:29.570 process only and providing that 06:29.579 --> 06:31.970 feedback , improves the process and the 06:31.980 --> 06:34.147 processes we have are better than they 06:34.149 --> 06:36.371 were 20 years ago . They're better than 06:36.371 --> 06:38.593 they were 10 years ago . They're better 06:38.593 --> 06:38.329 than they were five years ago when I or 06:38.339 --> 06:40.339 excuse me , 10 years ago when I was 06:40.339 --> 06:42.506 involved in this patch of my life . Uh 06:42.506 --> 06:44.940 So a lot of evolution has happened but 06:44.950 --> 06:48.579 in , in 2015 , when I excuse me , 06:48.589 --> 06:51.609 2014 , really ? Um when IP CS at Tindal 06:51.619 --> 06:54.690 Air Force Base , I was um my uh ex-wife 06:54.799 --> 06:58.559 and I uh moved to Tal um very much a 06:58.570 --> 07:00.792 different mental style . The , the base 07:00.792 --> 07:02.959 was converting from an A TC base to an 07:02.959 --> 07:05.292 AC C base . And it goes from , you know , 07:05.292 --> 07:07.126 being in a learning and training 07:07.126 --> 07:09.014 environment to being , we have to 07:09.014 --> 07:11.126 accelerate and change way before that 07:11.126 --> 07:13.348 became the , the norm . Um because they 07:13.348 --> 07:15.514 had to stand up and bring over F-22s . 07:15.514 --> 07:18.500 Uh So I was part of the 3 25th OS S and 07:19.420 --> 07:21.589 I hit the ground running when it came 07:21.600 --> 07:23.970 to tactical . I for six years of my 07:23.980 --> 07:26.091 career , excuse me , five years of my 07:26.091 --> 07:28.091 career as an intel troop was at the 07:28.091 --> 07:30.091 operational strategic level . I had 07:30.091 --> 07:32.258 never been in the fire hose . That was 07:32.258 --> 07:34.091 a tactical level of supporting a 07:34.091 --> 07:36.147 platform . So I had to go to F-22 uh 07:36.147 --> 07:37.980 intelligence training . If two , 07:37.980 --> 07:40.202 there's also co located at Tyndall back 07:40.202 --> 07:39.899 then these days , I believe it's at 07:39.910 --> 07:42.149 Egland since the hurricane , um , or 07:42.160 --> 07:44.160 Langley . I can't remember which at 07:44.160 --> 07:46.271 this point . Um , but any intel troop 07:46.271 --> 07:48.438 that's been through that school , it , 07:48.438 --> 07:50.604 it is a fire hose . You actually go to 07:50.604 --> 07:52.716 the same classes as the F-22 pilots . 07:52.716 --> 07:54.827 You get right into the same systems , 07:54.827 --> 07:57.500 you get , uh , you get a dose of what 07:57.510 --> 07:59.621 that's like to be a pilot because you 07:59.621 --> 08:01.732 have to understand what they're going 08:01.732 --> 08:03.843 through what they hear , what's going 08:03.843 --> 08:05.732 on , the beeps and squeaks in the 08:05.732 --> 08:05.399 cockpit . So that's , that's one 08:05.410 --> 08:07.720 culture shock . Second culture shock is 08:07.730 --> 08:10.579 that my wife um the school that she was 08:10.589 --> 08:12.811 going to uh in Alaska , Anchorage , she 08:12.811 --> 08:14.811 was going for biology . They didn't 08:14.811 --> 08:16.978 offer that locally in uh Panama City , 08:16.978 --> 08:18.867 Florida . So uh Pensacola was the 08:18.867 --> 08:21.109 closest location for Florida State or a 08:21.119 --> 08:23.380 satellite version of that that offered 08:23.390 --> 08:26.980 that . So we ended up setting up a , 08:27.869 --> 08:29.980 a separate place to live so she could 08:29.980 --> 08:32.147 go to school and pursue her . What she 08:32.147 --> 08:34.313 was interested in . That is what I was 08:34.313 --> 08:36.480 all about was making sure that she was 08:36.480 --> 08:38.480 happy and that she could pursue her 08:38.480 --> 08:40.591 goals and no , no kids at this time . 08:40.591 --> 08:42.647 No , no , no Children . Absolutely . 08:42.647 --> 08:44.702 That is a very important detail . So 08:44.702 --> 08:46.813 stretching thin . I'm a senior airman 08:46.813 --> 08:48.925 at the time , senior airman in 2014 . 08:48.925 --> 08:51.147 This was during the belt tightening the 08:51.147 --> 08:53.202 force restructuring of the Air Force 08:53.202 --> 08:52.559 and active duty component . They were 08:52.570 --> 08:54.989 paying people to get out . Uh Captains 08:55.000 --> 08:56.869 were getting shown the door , uh 08:56.900 --> 08:59.390 getting paid a severance . There was um 09:00.299 --> 09:02.466 for my career field at that time too . 09:02.466 --> 09:04.577 I thought I was pretty safe because I 09:04.577 --> 09:06.410 was looking at a uh , you know , 09:06.410 --> 09:08.577 reenlistment bonus . That was pretty , 09:08.577 --> 09:08.390 pretty high those days . It was in the 09:08.400 --> 09:10.456 multiplier . I think it was like six 09:10.456 --> 09:12.567 points . It was something like in the 09:12.567 --> 09:14.789 neighborhood . If I reenlisted about 80 09:14.789 --> 09:16.844 grand , I think it was . So I didn't 09:16.844 --> 09:19.067 think I was gonna have too much problem 09:19.067 --> 09:21.011 for a while , but I was stretching 09:21.011 --> 09:23.178 myself then , you know , I had a big P 09:23.178 --> 09:22.919 CS and I had some money in the bank , 09:23.159 --> 09:25.103 but I'm still a senior airman on a 09:25.103 --> 09:27.270 single family income trying to pay for 09:27.270 --> 09:29.437 my wife's college , making good use of 09:29.437 --> 09:31.492 things like the Hap Arnold Grant and 09:31.492 --> 09:33.715 other things afforded to us as military 09:33.715 --> 09:35.881 members , but still burning the candle 09:35.881 --> 09:38.103 at two ends when it comes financially . 09:38.103 --> 09:40.270 Um , so that's , that's what the third 09:40.270 --> 09:42.492 strike against me . And then the fourth 09:42.492 --> 09:44.548 strike was the culture of within the 09:44.548 --> 09:46.770 unit . The unit wasn't bad . It was the 09:46.770 --> 09:48.881 fact that there was a lot expected of 09:48.881 --> 09:50.881 me that I was not familiar with and 09:50.881 --> 09:53.048 trying to cope with a lot of different 09:53.048 --> 09:55.215 things while trying to thrive in a new 09:55.215 --> 09:57.326 environment . It was a good , perfect 09:57.326 --> 09:59.500 storm of what I could probably equate 09:59.510 --> 10:03.219 to being the norm of anybody PC sing uh 10:03.229 --> 10:05.619 to a new base when you're still fresh , 10:05.630 --> 10:07.929 you're in your first enlistment . So 10:08.590 --> 10:10.701 that is kind of the setting the stage 10:10.701 --> 10:12.890 for what happened very rapidly . After 10:12.900 --> 10:14.956 about four months of being at Tindal 10:14.956 --> 10:17.122 Air Force Base , my marriage starts to 10:17.122 --> 10:19.570 break down the taxing this of going 10:19.580 --> 10:21.747 back and forth . It's about a two hour 10:21.747 --> 10:23.747 drive back and forth . So two hours 10:23.747 --> 10:25.913 there , two hours back to Pensacola to 10:25.913 --> 10:28.024 see my wife during the week while I'm 10:28.024 --> 10:30.136 already working 1314 hours and do not 10:30.136 --> 10:32.510 feel the motivation to try to get out 10:32.520 --> 10:34.576 there and then when I am out there , 10:34.576 --> 10:36.631 it's only a few hours of really good 10:36.631 --> 10:38.853 quality time . So things start to break 10:38.853 --> 10:41.950 down . And unfortunately my wife and I , 10:41.960 --> 10:45.190 um , um , pretty one sided , we decided 10:45.200 --> 10:47.422 that divorce was going to be the option 10:47.422 --> 10:49.950 and that she also had found somebody 10:49.960 --> 10:52.109 else . And , uh , it was pretty , 10:52.119 --> 10:54.119 pretty quick all at once . A lot of 10:54.119 --> 10:56.369 things . Um , were you doing shift work 10:56.380 --> 10:58.436 at this time too ? No , we weren't . 10:58.436 --> 11:00.602 Fortunately I was not a shift worker . 11:00.602 --> 11:02.769 We weren't operational . Like I said , 11:02.769 --> 11:04.880 we were still standing up these and I 11:04.880 --> 11:07.102 was in a training status too . I mean , 11:07.102 --> 11:09.213 I had my five level and I was a fully 11:09.213 --> 11:11.324 fledged senior . I'm an intel analyst 11:11.324 --> 11:13.269 and I was , but I was producing at 11:13.269 --> 11:15.436 least four or five products a week for 11:15.436 --> 11:17.602 what we call the , we used to call the 11:17.602 --> 11:16.979 Wing King Briefing . I don't know if 11:16.989 --> 11:19.211 this base still does that too where you 11:19.211 --> 11:22.700 refer to that old school term if , if 11:22.710 --> 11:24.619 uh bring it back um the Wing King 11:24.630 --> 11:26.630 Briefing and then you'd also have a 11:26.630 --> 11:28.797 TSSC I briefing once a month and you'd 11:28.797 --> 11:30.741 also have a special access program 11:30.741 --> 11:32.908 stuff because we were in the fifth gen 11:32.908 --> 11:36.780 community . And I even um I know a lot 11:36.789 --> 11:38.900 of us like to have that daily news in 11:38.900 --> 11:40.845 our bathrooms too and a lot of our 11:40.845 --> 11:42.733 operational facilities . And as a 11:42.733 --> 11:44.956 senior airman , it was my job every day 11:44.956 --> 11:44.900 to come in at 5 a.m. and make a new 11:44.909 --> 11:46.965 product . So that , so the um pilots 11:46.965 --> 11:49.076 could , could read what's going on in 11:49.076 --> 11:51.187 the day . It was considered also part 11:51.187 --> 11:53.298 of that duty . So there were a lot of 11:53.298 --> 11:55.520 do outs but no shift work . But it felt 11:55.520 --> 11:57.687 like I was just curious because that , 11:57.687 --> 11:59.798 that would add even another potential 11:59.798 --> 11:59.789 element just to , you know , the 11:59.799 --> 12:01.910 overall stress and complexities but , 12:01.910 --> 12:04.132 but carry on . Sorry about that . I was 12:04.132 --> 12:07.270 just curious at the , so all of those 12:07.280 --> 12:09.280 things that came together to make a 12:09.280 --> 12:12.210 perfect storm . Um My ex wife ex 12:12.219 --> 12:16.000 expressed her discontent in her 12:16.010 --> 12:18.929 interest in , in parting ways and I 12:18.940 --> 12:21.419 didn't take it very well . Um I didn't 12:21.429 --> 12:24.880 lash out at her , but in the grand 12:24.890 --> 12:26.890 scheme of things , it felt very one 12:26.890 --> 12:30.549 sided at the time . Um And I went 12:30.559 --> 12:32.849 into a deep depression that I do know 12:32.859 --> 12:34.692 was major depression after being 12:34.692 --> 12:36.803 clinically diagnosed after the fact , 12:36.803 --> 12:39.890 which was temporary . Luckily , um in a 12:39.900 --> 12:42.122 span of a couple of weeks went by . You 12:42.122 --> 12:44.289 have to forgive me because this was 10 12:44.289 --> 12:44.219 years ago . I don't know how much time 12:44.229 --> 12:47.229 went by , but we weren't divorced yet . 12:47.539 --> 12:49.706 Um And we were living in two different 12:49.706 --> 12:51.650 places and we were still coming to 12:51.650 --> 12:53.761 terms with what we were gonna do . Um 12:53.880 --> 12:55.936 And I was starting to break down , I 12:55.936 --> 12:59.849 was starting to feel what I would 12:59.859 --> 13:03.719 equate to like a robot . I did not find 13:03.729 --> 13:06.419 joy in almost anything . It wasn't so 13:06.429 --> 13:08.540 much that I was sad all the time . It 13:08.540 --> 13:10.651 wasn't so much that I was focusing on 13:10.651 --> 13:12.540 the negative is that I completely 13:12.540 --> 13:15.299 withdrew from life and I was still 13:15.309 --> 13:17.420 doing everything that I operationally 13:17.420 --> 13:19.587 was required to me as an airman and at 13:19.587 --> 13:21.753 my duty station and I was dealing with 13:21.753 --> 13:25.280 those stressors and I was still 13:25.289 --> 13:27.590 working the way I should and it wasn't 13:27.599 --> 13:29.599 necessarily impacting my work , but 13:29.599 --> 13:33.320 cracks in the mold were happening . 13:33.330 --> 13:35.640 Did you recognize this in yourself or 13:35.650 --> 13:38.580 did others around you recognize it or 13:38.590 --> 13:40.534 is this , is it you're able now to 13:40.534 --> 13:42.760 armchair quarter back and look , look 13:42.770 --> 13:45.059 back at this at the time , I'd say a 13:45.070 --> 13:48.080 little bit of both . Um the one , the 13:48.090 --> 13:51.840 one instance which um kind of 13:52.900 --> 13:55.233 stands out in my mind before the actual , 13:55.233 --> 13:57.400 let's say turning point of all this in 13:57.400 --> 13:59.549 the actual climax to the story , not 13:59.559 --> 14:02.080 climax , excuse me . Um Yeah , we'll go 14:02.090 --> 14:05.469 with climax . Climax works . Um Was I 14:05.479 --> 14:07.479 was giving a briefing just to intel 14:07.479 --> 14:09.646 members , my whole squadron um kind of 14:09.646 --> 14:11.812 like dry running um uh product that we 14:11.812 --> 14:13.923 were gonna give to the wing commander 14:13.923 --> 14:16.035 and a lieutenant in the front row was 14:16.035 --> 14:18.090 uh prior enlisted lieutenant . So he 14:18.090 --> 14:20.146 was a little bit older than just the 14:20.146 --> 14:22.368 standard butter bar . And um he started 14:22.368 --> 14:24.423 asking some questions and in , in my 14:24.423 --> 14:26.535 memory , I still think he was wrong . 14:26.535 --> 14:28.849 Um But I lashed out a lot more than I 14:28.859 --> 14:30.692 should have in that instance , I 14:30.692 --> 14:34.000 reacted in a way that was disrespectful . 14:34.090 --> 14:36.789 Um , and not , and , and I mean , my 14:36.799 --> 14:39.021 squadron commander right there in front 14:39.021 --> 14:40.855 of me , everybody in my chain of 14:40.855 --> 14:42.910 command is in front of me so much so 14:42.910 --> 14:44.855 that they had to kind of quell the 14:44.855 --> 14:47.077 situation . Um , not so much that there 14:47.077 --> 14:49.299 was like a come to blows or any sort of 14:49.299 --> 14:51.410 back and forth exchange . It was in , 14:51.410 --> 14:54.429 it was uncalled for reaction and 14:54.440 --> 14:56.440 unusual , that's not who you were . 14:56.440 --> 14:58.496 It's not what you've done up to this 14:58.496 --> 15:00.607 point . Right . Well , as far as they 15:00.607 --> 15:00.580 knew , I mean , I've only been around 15:00.590 --> 15:02.840 for a little while too , so I've only 15:02.849 --> 15:05.599 been put under , I was still in , let's 15:05.609 --> 15:08.090 say pre IQT or initial qualification 15:08.099 --> 15:10.450 training for the F-22 unit and only 15:10.460 --> 15:12.571 been there a couple of months , I was 15:12.571 --> 15:14.989 doing the normal things that an OS S 15:15.000 --> 15:17.890 intel allo analysts had to do , but I 15:17.900 --> 15:20.500 also wasn't in with the F-22 squadrons 15:20.510 --> 15:22.732 and doing the work that goes along with 15:22.732 --> 15:24.954 supporting the platform . So I was kind 15:24.954 --> 15:27.010 of in that , that middle area . So I 15:27.010 --> 15:29.177 can't remember exactly what happened , 15:29.177 --> 15:31.288 but some time went by and I did start 15:31.288 --> 15:33.510 school , um which was co located in the 15:33.510 --> 15:35.732 same unit for the F-22 intel unit and I 15:35.732 --> 15:38.760 made it through almost , I'd say 90% of 15:38.770 --> 15:41.859 the course . Um and the course only 15:41.869 --> 15:44.390 gets more and more stressful and it is 15:44.400 --> 15:48.270 literally absorbing fire hose 15:48.280 --> 15:50.150 briefings all the time going and 15:50.159 --> 15:52.559 understanding big technical data and 15:52.570 --> 15:54.950 trying to absorb all that and then 15:54.960 --> 15:56.904 regurgitate it all within a timely 15:56.904 --> 15:59.090 manner that is useful and it is 15:59.099 --> 16:01.155 learning things that I never thought 16:01.155 --> 16:03.488 I'd ever know . And it's exciting stuff , 16:03.488 --> 16:06.030 but all at the same time I'm going home 16:06.039 --> 16:08.095 and I'm sitting down on my couch and 16:08.095 --> 16:10.261 the only thing keeping me from getting 16:10.261 --> 16:12.317 back up off that couch from going to 16:12.317 --> 16:14.317 work is to walk , my dog is to grab 16:14.317 --> 16:16.261 groceries , finding no pleasure in 16:16.261 --> 16:18.520 anything that I was doing . Um , losing 16:18.530 --> 16:20.919 weight too . Um I didn't realize this 16:20.929 --> 16:23.040 till much later . Uh I had lost about 16:23.040 --> 16:26.500 £20 over the span of probably three or 16:26.510 --> 16:28.989 four months . Um I didn't recognize it . 16:29.109 --> 16:32.549 Um But the , where the story takes a 16:32.559 --> 16:35.799 turn was , it was probably maybe a week 16:35.809 --> 16:37.909 or two out from when , if two or uh 16:37.919 --> 16:40.099 intel , um training was gonna be 16:40.109 --> 16:42.220 concluded for initial qualification . 16:42.280 --> 16:44.502 And this is where you get into like the 16:44.502 --> 16:46.613 harder parts of it where you're gonna 16:46.613 --> 16:48.669 actually be tested and certified and 16:48.669 --> 16:50.724 give a bunch of briefs all at once . 16:50.724 --> 16:50.150 You have a couple of hours to put all 16:50.159 --> 16:52.369 the data together and have access to 16:52.380 --> 16:54.436 systems and then present that to the 16:54.436 --> 16:56.547 subject matter , exports or a patch . 16:56.599 --> 16:58.710 And that morning I came in to work on 16:58.710 --> 17:00.877 something , I don't know what it was . 17:00.877 --> 17:03.190 Um And my supervisor had come by a tech 17:03.200 --> 17:05.459 sergeant . Uh I'm gonna just keep it to 17:05.469 --> 17:08.020 last names . Woodell . Uh T er , 17:08.099 --> 17:12.029 Woodell came by and he recognized 17:12.208 --> 17:14.430 and he knew what was going on with me . 17:14.430 --> 17:16.541 It's not that they didn't know that I 17:16.541 --> 17:18.764 was having family issues and that I was 17:18.764 --> 17:20.986 working through them , but I don't know 17:20.986 --> 17:22.986 what he saw , but he had the mental 17:22.986 --> 17:24.652 cognition to recognize in the 17:24.652 --> 17:26.819 intestinal fortitude , to ask the hard 17:26.819 --> 17:28.930 question and the question verbatim to 17:28.930 --> 17:31.152 me to this day , I remember it's like 6 17:31.152 --> 17:33.430 a.m. and nobody else is in the offices . 17:33.430 --> 17:35.486 Have you been thinking about hurting 17:35.486 --> 17:39.469 yourself ? And I got to a 17:39.479 --> 17:42.680 place where I couldn't speak . I 17:42.689 --> 17:44.856 couldn't say no , I couldn't say yes . 17:44.856 --> 17:47.790 I got choked up . I got teary and I 17:47.800 --> 17:51.760 just stared at him and it 17:51.770 --> 17:54.510 took him about five seconds to say , 17:54.520 --> 17:56.742 all right , put everything down . We're 17:56.742 --> 17:58.964 going for a walk . And I don't know how 17:58.964 --> 18:01.131 the sequence of events went there . It 18:01.131 --> 18:03.131 went , I know tech Sergeant Waddell 18:03.131 --> 18:05.242 myself , my superintendent , a master 18:05.242 --> 18:07.187 sergeant . Uh that was literally a 18:07.187 --> 18:09.409 stone's throw away . Drove me to mental 18:09.409 --> 18:12.170 health and I talked to mental health 18:12.599 --> 18:16.010 and basically 18:16.099 --> 18:19.469 stayed with me , escorted me , talked 18:19.479 --> 18:22.430 to me , made it not feel like something 18:22.439 --> 18:25.270 was wrong , tried to keep things 18:25.630 --> 18:28.199 normal , at least to a certain expect , 18:28.209 --> 18:30.542 not trying to focus on what we're doing , 18:30.542 --> 18:32.880 but to get me to where the next step . 18:33.300 --> 18:36.290 And then I got um basically um assessed 18:36.300 --> 18:38.449 by mental health . And uh through , 18:38.459 --> 18:40.459 through two different doctors and I 18:40.459 --> 18:44.050 started um kind of some mediated care 18:44.060 --> 18:48.020 through them . Um But after a couple 18:48.030 --> 18:50.949 of weeks , I had a relapse and to a 18:50.959 --> 18:52.903 point where they had to take me to 18:52.903 --> 18:55.126 mental health again and they decided to 18:55.126 --> 18:57.348 outpatient , commit me uh to a civilian 18:57.348 --> 18:59.237 facility that was outside . So by 18:59.237 --> 19:01.292 outpatient , just so everybody knows 19:01.292 --> 19:03.459 what my definition of outpatient was . 19:03.459 --> 19:05.292 They felt safe enough that I was 19:05.292 --> 19:04.910 literally two blocks away because I 19:04.920 --> 19:06.698 lived not too far away from the 19:06.698 --> 19:08.910 facility that I was allowed to leave . 19:09.310 --> 19:11.949 They gave me medication , they saw me , 19:11.959 --> 19:14.292 they assessed me and from that point on , 19:14.292 --> 19:16.515 they're like , you're coming here every 19:16.515 --> 19:18.681 day for six hours . I was out last six 19:18.681 --> 19:20.848 hours ago , basically half of my day . 19:20.848 --> 19:23.699 So until further notice , um I don't 19:23.709 --> 19:25.820 remember if it was on the weekends or 19:25.820 --> 19:27.653 not , but I'm pretty sure . They 19:27.653 --> 19:29.876 assessed me , they gave me medication . 19:29.876 --> 19:32.949 Um , and they , they made the 19:32.959 --> 19:35.126 determination after me being there for 19:35.126 --> 19:37.237 about five or six hours that they did 19:37.237 --> 19:39.170 not feel that I needed to be um 19:39.369 --> 19:42.229 involuntarily committed and I did not 19:42.239 --> 19:45.890 necessarily want to stay there . I 19:45.900 --> 19:48.520 absolutely wanted help and had 19:48.530 --> 19:50.869 completely accepted it by then that 19:50.880 --> 19:52.880 this was my life , this is what was 19:52.880 --> 19:56.739 happening . And I did not feel a stigma . 19:57.250 --> 19:59.410 I was scared for my career . I got , 19:59.420 --> 20:01.587 especially as an intel person thinking 20:01.587 --> 20:03.809 that I'm gonna lose my my clearance and 20:03.809 --> 20:05.864 I'm not gonna be able to work . Um , 20:06.010 --> 20:08.900 but I did everything I was told and I 20:08.910 --> 20:11.260 put it in , uh kind of the , the , 20:11.270 --> 20:13.530 let's say a , a cliche of putting my 20:13.540 --> 20:15.596 life into a higher power . I'm not a 20:15.596 --> 20:17.707 religious person by nature , but I do 20:17.707 --> 20:19.596 have the virtues and believe in a 20:19.596 --> 20:21.910 higher power . Uh Whether it be by 20:21.920 --> 20:24.400 morale . Um I'm sorry , morals or 20:24.410 --> 20:26.410 whether it is somebody else that is 20:26.410 --> 20:28.299 looking out for your own good . I 20:28.299 --> 20:30.243 believe that is a spiritual way of 20:30.243 --> 20:32.188 doing things . Um So I kind of put 20:32.188 --> 20:35.790 faith in the system and my NC Os that 20:35.800 --> 20:37.856 were around me and my NC Os to their 20:37.856 --> 20:40.022 credit . I remember specifically would 20:40.022 --> 20:42.244 come visit me every day at home because 20:42.244 --> 20:44.300 that's awesome . I was gonna ask you 20:44.300 --> 20:46.411 about that . Yeah . So , so you , you 20:46.411 --> 20:48.633 saw good leadership then it sounds like 20:48.633 --> 20:50.856 from right from the beginning they took 20:50.856 --> 20:52.911 care of you , there was never a um a 20:52.939 --> 20:55.161 situation where you felt like they just 20:55.161 --> 20:57.106 cast you aside , got you where you 20:57.106 --> 20:59.272 needed to go and kind of left you left 20:59.272 --> 21:01.328 you to hang out the dry there and it 21:01.328 --> 21:03.550 wasn't even just good leadership at one 21:03.550 --> 21:05.772 level . It was multiple levels . Um The 21:05.772 --> 21:07.772 OS s commander and by way , the I I 21:07.772 --> 21:09.995 only know this because I had out briefs 21:09.995 --> 21:12.250 with them before enabled my SI O or 21:12.260 --> 21:14.427 senior intelligence officer uh who was 21:14.427 --> 21:17.910 a major . Um the 21:17.920 --> 21:20.750 leeway and the , the because mental 21:20.760 --> 21:22.979 health actually recommended to my 21:22.989 --> 21:25.270 leadership to pull my clearance 21:25.280 --> 21:27.391 temporarily to , to do something like 21:27.391 --> 21:30.020 that , which is not , I I would never 21:30.030 --> 21:32.197 see that as a bad thing that is trying 21:32.197 --> 21:34.750 to protect national security , an 21:34.760 --> 21:36.982 instable element in a system that needs 21:36.982 --> 21:39.699 protected would never ever look at that 21:39.709 --> 21:41.542 as a bad thing . But my chain of 21:41.542 --> 21:44.300 command said no really . He is usable . 21:45.030 --> 21:48.280 He is not far gone . We 21:48.290 --> 21:50.520 trust that he can still do certain 21:50.530 --> 21:52.752 things . And they would have me come in 21:52.752 --> 21:54.641 for about four hours a day in the 21:54.641 --> 21:56.530 beginning of the day to do . They 21:56.530 --> 21:58.530 removed me from that intel training 21:58.530 --> 22:00.697 environment because it was a stressful 22:00.697 --> 22:02.919 part of that course . Um And , and gave 22:02.919 --> 22:04.919 me things to do and didn't limit my 22:04.919 --> 22:07.250 access , didn't put a mark on my record 22:07.640 --> 22:09.807 because they didn't want to mark on my 22:09.807 --> 22:11.862 record . They wanted to see how this 22:11.862 --> 22:13.918 played out . I to this day . Have no 22:13.918 --> 22:16.140 idea why . So they , they , they didn't 22:16.140 --> 22:18.362 consult you about this . They just made 22:18.362 --> 22:20.362 this decision with , without really 22:20.362 --> 22:22.584 gaining any of your feedback at all . I 22:22.584 --> 22:24.807 have no recollection of being discussed 22:24.807 --> 22:27.229 with anybody because I assumed that was 22:27.239 --> 22:29.406 what was gonna happen that I was going 22:29.406 --> 22:31.628 to be temporarily put into some sort of 22:31.628 --> 22:33.795 holding pattern where I wasn't allowed 22:33.795 --> 22:36.017 to do my job because of the access that 22:36.017 --> 22:38.239 I would be afforded um based on need to 22:38.239 --> 22:40.849 know and , and necessity and none of 22:40.859 --> 22:42.915 that happened right away . The first 22:42.915 --> 22:44.915 thing that that part of my chain of 22:44.915 --> 22:46.859 command and by the way , those are 22:46.859 --> 22:48.970 words coming from the NC OS that were 22:48.970 --> 22:50.859 told to them by the officers . It 22:50.859 --> 22:53.026 wasn't like it wasn't like that . They 22:53.026 --> 22:55.137 came to me and discussed that with me 22:55.137 --> 22:57.248 that I can recall , but I know it was 22:57.248 --> 22:59.469 their top cover from the officers 22:59.479 --> 23:03.390 appointed above me that ensured that no 23:03.400 --> 23:05.733 stigma was put on me from the beginning . 23:06.119 --> 23:08.063 That's amazing , man . Sounds like 23:08.063 --> 23:10.869 there's a lot of collaboration , trust 23:10.880 --> 23:12.547 amongst leadership , which is 23:12.547 --> 23:14.547 phenomenal . And they obviously saw 23:14.547 --> 23:17.640 something in you that still um gave 23:17.650 --> 23:19.706 them confidence that even though you 23:19.706 --> 23:21.872 were going through this difficult time 23:21.872 --> 23:23.983 that you can were still usable if you 23:23.983 --> 23:26.039 will right in the in the moment that 23:26.039 --> 23:28.372 you were in . So to me , this is a huge , 23:28.372 --> 23:28.250 I , I actually wrote something down . I 23:28.260 --> 23:30.260 mean , I just put down , this is an 23:30.260 --> 23:32.427 absolute mental health success story . 23:32.427 --> 23:34.371 And you know , if , if you're just 23:34.371 --> 23:36.593 tuning in right now or you fast forward 23:36.593 --> 23:38.760 it . Uh You gotta understand what what 23:38.760 --> 23:40.816 Sean has gone through . He's sitting 23:40.816 --> 23:40.069 across me right now . He's a master 23:40.079 --> 23:42.219 sergeant in the Air force right now . 23:42.609 --> 23:44.942 This did , this did not end your career . 23:44.942 --> 23:47.439 This didn't hurt your career whatsoever . 23:47.449 --> 23:49.900 It seems like to me this is , this is 23:49.910 --> 23:51.910 why this is a success story . And I 23:51.910 --> 23:54.077 think what you're sharing right now is 23:54.077 --> 23:56.077 the impact on people that are gonna 23:56.077 --> 23:58.354 listen to this one day . And I'm gonna , 23:58.354 --> 23:58.010 I'm gonna recommend every leader on 23:58.020 --> 23:59.964 this base . Listen to this , every 23:59.964 --> 24:02.729 single commander sel and first sergeant 24:02.739 --> 24:04.719 at minimum . Listen to your story 24:04.729 --> 24:07.189 because this is , this is what we need 24:07.199 --> 24:09.310 to be able to absorb and then breathe 24:09.310 --> 24:11.199 into our airmen . But II , I just 24:11.209 --> 24:13.431 wanted to point that out . I wrote that 24:13.431 --> 24:15.653 down . I mean , we might even call this 24:15.653 --> 24:18.530 podcast , you know , Sean , um John 24:18.540 --> 24:21.290 Jacob's mental health success story 24:21.459 --> 24:23.681 because this is phenomenal . Um I don't 24:23.681 --> 24:26.015 mean to cut you off . I just , I had to , 24:26.015 --> 24:28.070 I had to inject there and there's so 24:28.070 --> 24:30.070 many more people in this other than 24:30.070 --> 24:29.770 just the leadership because the 24:29.780 --> 24:32.579 leadership of the NC Os as well from 24:32.589 --> 24:34.849 the flip side , from the ability to 24:34.859 --> 24:36.748 recognize these things because it 24:36.748 --> 24:38.803 wasn't just Sergeant Waddell . There 24:38.803 --> 24:40.915 was also a tech sergeant Peterson who 24:40.915 --> 24:40.829 was my direct supervisor was like , 24:40.839 --> 24:43.172 Woodell was his supervisor , supervisor . 24:43.172 --> 24:45.283 Um Speaking of which uh Woodell was a 24:45.283 --> 24:47.117 new master surgeon at the time , 24:47.117 --> 24:49.283 Peterson was a new tech surgeon at the 24:49.283 --> 24:51.061 time . Um I have since run into 24:51.061 --> 24:53.339 Peterson . I deployed with him in 2017 . 24:53.339 --> 24:55.339 So I did get to see him again in my 24:55.339 --> 24:58.589 career when we were both peers . Um but 24:58.599 --> 25:01.349 they came to visit me . Um maybe not 25:01.359 --> 25:03.470 every day , but I , enough that I can 25:03.470 --> 25:05.581 remember them coming and sitting down 25:05.581 --> 25:07.581 with me for an hour watching me and 25:07.581 --> 25:09.803 talk to me about video games or talk to 25:09.803 --> 25:12.026 me about whatever I'm doing , trying to 25:12.026 --> 25:14.137 normalize things . What had me out to 25:14.137 --> 25:16.470 his house multiple times . I wa I drove , 25:16.470 --> 25:18.581 maybe it's maybe like 20 minutes away 25:18.581 --> 25:18.439 from where I lived in town to the out 25:18.449 --> 25:20.505 of town where he had his own house . 25:20.505 --> 25:22.393 I'd bring my dog there . He had a 25:22.393 --> 25:24.393 little pond , he'd let my dog , you 25:24.393 --> 25:27.170 know , run . He wanted me there . Uh 25:27.400 --> 25:29.869 outside of work , he made it his 25:29.880 --> 25:32.829 personal responsibility to try to bring 25:32.839 --> 25:36.030 me back into the fold and to see where 25:36.040 --> 25:37.929 I was coming from . And again , I 25:37.929 --> 25:39.762 reemphasize , this is a chain of 25:39.762 --> 25:41.984 command that did not know me for a long 25:41.984 --> 25:44.151 time . It's not like I had established 25:44.151 --> 25:47.099 a good relationship uh with this chain 25:47.109 --> 25:49.276 of command necessarily , I'd been less 25:49.276 --> 25:51.220 than a year . I'd also been TDY to 25:51.220 --> 25:53.220 Maguire Air Force Base somewhere in 25:53.220 --> 25:55.331 between there uh for uh intel support 25:55.331 --> 25:57.331 to force protection , which doesn't 25:57.331 --> 25:59.442 exist anymore , but it was sorry . Um 25:59.442 --> 26:01.665 The , but that was an awesome trip . So 26:01.665 --> 26:03.790 I had to come home in the middle of 26:03.800 --> 26:05.911 that one time I went to mental health 26:05.911 --> 26:08.133 and then the next time I went to mental 26:08.133 --> 26:10.244 health , they let me go to a training 26:10.244 --> 26:12.300 because they knew that I could drive 26:12.300 --> 26:14.578 home and go back to my resiliency base , 26:14.578 --> 26:16.689 my , my family members . Um because I 26:16.689 --> 26:18.522 had nobody in Florida . I had no 26:18.522 --> 26:20.633 structure in Florida . So my chain of 26:20.633 --> 26:24.569 command became my family for a very 26:24.579 --> 26:27.520 short amount of time . They made sure 26:27.709 --> 26:29.859 that I had somebody to talk to and it 26:29.869 --> 26:32.036 isn't even just those two guys . There 26:32.036 --> 26:33.980 were two other NC OS A tech . Uh I 26:33.980 --> 26:36.258 think he's a senior now in active duty , 26:36.258 --> 26:38.480 if not , not a chief by now . Uh Claire 26:38.480 --> 26:40.647 and then another guy , but his name is 26:40.647 --> 26:42.702 escaping me . And then a captain who 26:42.702 --> 26:45.189 has since retired , that was just the 26:45.199 --> 26:47.430 most bubbly guy . He actually went to 26:47.439 --> 26:50.310 the Merchant Marine Academy and he uh 26:50.319 --> 26:52.208 but his best friend was the under 26:52.208 --> 26:54.152 secretary of the Air Force . So we 26:54.152 --> 26:56.319 ended up going into the Air Force . Um 26:56.319 --> 26:58.569 But he also had a very , very uh big 26:58.579 --> 27:00.690 impression , made a big impression on 27:00.690 --> 27:03.390 me . Um So the whole unit in the grand 27:03.400 --> 27:05.233 scheme of things , I , I think I 27:05.233 --> 27:07.289 mentioned it's not a very big unit . 27:07.289 --> 27:07.089 It's like 50% of the people because it 27:07.099 --> 27:09.430 was a very small Os S , it's only maybe 27:09.439 --> 27:13.420 15 people um made 27:13.439 --> 27:15.689 cognizant decisions and saw something 27:15.699 --> 27:19.589 in me and made sure that what I was 27:19.599 --> 27:23.119 going through and the a DH the um 27:24.540 --> 27:26.373 the depression that I was having 27:26.373 --> 27:28.596 regardless if it was suicide related or 27:28.596 --> 27:30.760 suicide motivated uh or had something 27:30.770 --> 27:33.270 to do with . We think something's gonna 27:33.280 --> 27:35.447 happen to Jacobs if we don't do this , 27:35.640 --> 27:38.400 that wasn't the case . It was genuine 27:38.410 --> 27:41.680 organic leadership . 27:42.339 --> 27:45.140 It was an ability to understand that 27:45.150 --> 27:48.790 there are warning signs , the ability 27:48.800 --> 27:51.199 to ask the question and then make it 27:51.209 --> 27:55.000 their responsibility to , to care for 27:55.400 --> 27:58.479 and engage with somebody . And 27:58.489 --> 28:00.930 literally , ii I don't wanna also 28:00.939 --> 28:03.161 discount what the civilians did to help 28:03.161 --> 28:05.272 me because I did go to those . It was 28:05.272 --> 28:07.161 more uh just a quick thing on the 28:07.161 --> 28:09.328 outpatient commitment . Um It was kind 28:09.328 --> 28:11.439 of like group therapy . E essentially 28:11.439 --> 28:13.717 uh 99% of the people in that room , um , 28:13.717 --> 28:16.239 were military related . Um , some of 28:16.250 --> 28:18.800 them were , um , Vietnam vets , some of 28:18.810 --> 28:20.532 them were , a lot of them were 28:20.532 --> 28:24.209 dependents , um , who had things that 28:24.219 --> 28:26.969 were a lot more debilitating than what 28:26.979 --> 28:29.829 I had . And I can tell you , uh , it is 28:29.839 --> 28:32.650 very sobering to go to something like 28:32.660 --> 28:34.882 that in a safe environment where all of 28:34.882 --> 28:36.920 their cards are set out before each 28:36.930 --> 28:39.459 other and it's a no judgment , it's a 28:39.469 --> 28:42.229 judgment free zone and just the horror 28:42.239 --> 28:44.469 that you can hear that some people 28:44.479 --> 28:47.069 experience or have experienced or going 28:47.079 --> 28:49.301 through just to get through their daily 28:49.301 --> 28:51.619 lives sobers you up real quick and it 28:51.630 --> 28:53.839 doesn't , I'm not saying that's what 28:53.849 --> 28:56.016 turned me around , but I'm saying it's 28:56.016 --> 28:58.209 one of those things where you realize 28:58.219 --> 29:00.441 how good you have it no matter how much 29:00.441 --> 29:02.330 you think you've lost . And , and 29:02.330 --> 29:04.330 that's the power of those groups is 29:04.330 --> 29:06.219 because you , when you go through 29:06.219 --> 29:08.552 something like you went through , right , 29:08.552 --> 29:10.775 you feel like you're the only one going 29:10.775 --> 29:12.997 through it . You , you feel like no one 29:12.997 --> 29:14.941 else will understand you . There's 29:14.941 --> 29:17.108 something wrong with you . I shouldn't 29:17.108 --> 29:19.275 be feeling this way but realizing that 29:19.275 --> 29:21.497 there are others to your point that are 29:21.497 --> 29:23.663 even going through the things that are 29:23.663 --> 29:25.775 even deeper and darker maybe than you 29:25.775 --> 29:25.400 are . So , it gives you that , that 29:25.410 --> 29:27.632 hope in that process . That's why I'm , 29:27.632 --> 29:29.688 I'm glad you plugged that because so 29:29.688 --> 29:31.854 many military people in general were , 29:31.859 --> 29:34.839 um we , we're afraid to , to let our 29:34.849 --> 29:36.960 guard down . We are , we're afraid to 29:36.960 --> 29:39.550 talk openly in groups sometimes because 29:39.560 --> 29:41.939 we just don't want to be judged . We do , 29:41.949 --> 29:43.893 we're afraid for what people might 29:43.893 --> 29:46.060 think of us . But I think the opposite 29:46.060 --> 29:47.893 happens . I think we , there's a 29:47.893 --> 29:50.005 synergy that takes place and we begin 29:50.005 --> 29:52.116 to have more empathy for each other . 29:52.116 --> 29:54.393 We begin to look at each other and say , 29:54.393 --> 29:56.616 wow , I didn't even know you were going 29:56.616 --> 29:55.819 through something like that . I didn't 29:55.829 --> 29:57.940 realize someone could even experience 29:57.940 --> 29:59.885 that right now . So that gives you 29:59.885 --> 30:01.940 personal perspective as well . Um So 30:01.940 --> 30:04.051 I'm , I'm really glad that you shared 30:04.051 --> 30:06.162 that obviously knowing that you where 30:06.162 --> 30:08.385 you are now . Um I'm not surprised that 30:08.385 --> 30:10.810 this is that your journey through this 30:10.819 --> 30:13.152 mental health challenge that , that you , 30:13.152 --> 30:15.263 you were confronted with . You know , 30:15.263 --> 30:17.430 so that's where I got to and I , and I 30:17.430 --> 30:19.989 absolutely got to the point where I'm 30:20.000 --> 30:22.290 starting to be treated . Um I'm letting 30:22.300 --> 30:24.522 things like the group therapy sink in . 30:24.522 --> 30:26.633 I'm , I will be completely honest . I 30:26.633 --> 30:28.689 didn't take the medication . I don't 30:28.689 --> 30:30.911 know why to this day . I don't remember 30:30.911 --> 30:33.189 why . I think I took it the first time . 30:33.189 --> 30:35.359 I had some sort of , and I'm not a 30:35.369 --> 30:37.480 person that's adverse to medication . 30:37.480 --> 30:40.010 I'm not , um , but I'm not someone who 30:40.020 --> 30:42.242 likes to self medicate for any reason . 30:42.242 --> 30:45.560 Um , in , in the grand scheme of things . 30:46.060 --> 30:48.227 I don't know if it would have helped . 30:48.227 --> 30:50.393 I don't know what if it hurt . I still 30:50.393 --> 30:50.290 got to where I needed to be . So I see 30:50.300 --> 30:52.829 it as , as , as good medicine , 30:53.069 --> 30:55.839 regardless of whether I took the thing 30:55.849 --> 30:58.016 that might have , you know , helped me 30:58.016 --> 31:00.182 with a chemical imbalance or , or some 31:00.182 --> 31:02.349 sort of something that would help take 31:02.349 --> 31:04.405 the edge off . All I can tell you is 31:04.405 --> 31:06.390 after some of them , probably four 31:06.400 --> 31:10.209 weeks , there was , I 31:10.219 --> 31:12.410 started to feel feelings again in the 31:12.420 --> 31:14.364 grand scheme of things . I stopped 31:14.364 --> 31:16.410 getting into my own head and it's 31:16.420 --> 31:18.849 really hard to describe what that feels 31:18.859 --> 31:21.026 like . There's a , there's a couple of 31:21.026 --> 31:23.192 times in my life that I'll , I'll , uh 31:23.192 --> 31:25.415 not relapse but can get a taste of what 31:25.415 --> 31:27.810 that feels like again . Um Namely when 31:27.819 --> 31:30.300 I'm away from my family for a long TDY 31:30.310 --> 31:32.800 or deployment is the deepest I've ever 31:32.810 --> 31:35.540 felt coming close back to the what that 31:35.550 --> 31:38.569 depression tastes like . Um And 31:39.170 --> 31:42.489 just where they're completely rational 31:42.500 --> 31:46.000 thoughts of , of doing harm to 31:46.010 --> 31:49.829 oneself , but they they seem so 31:49.839 --> 31:53.400 simple and an answer to a 31:53.410 --> 31:56.579 problem that shouldn't be in any , 31:56.589 --> 31:59.530 anybody's reality . But that I do 31:59.540 --> 32:02.099 sometimes and my wife is very cognizant 32:02.109 --> 32:04.400 of that and I'll tell her , um , like 32:04.410 --> 32:06.632 I'll be on facetime with , with my kids 32:06.632 --> 32:08.854 or facetime with her , uh , when I'm at 32:08.854 --> 32:10.743 a long TDY or if I'm , I'm , uh , 32:10.743 --> 32:12.966 deployed last for 2017 . So it's been a 32:12.966 --> 32:15.132 while since I've had a six month being 32:15.132 --> 32:18.390 gone . Um , but she's very cognizant of 32:19.699 --> 32:21.810 that change in me when I , when I was 32:21.810 --> 32:23.921 just like , I'm feeling that a little 32:23.921 --> 32:26.088 bit and what she'll do is is she knows 32:26.088 --> 32:28.255 that my kids make that disappear . All 32:28.255 --> 32:27.739 they have to do is she's like , hey , 32:27.750 --> 32:29.750 you want to talk to your dad to say 32:29.750 --> 32:31.806 this , this and that she'll , she'll 32:31.806 --> 32:34.028 pre empt that and that little dose just 32:34.028 --> 32:36.260 brings me back out of the cloud . That 32:36.280 --> 32:38.502 is so it's not something that ever went 32:38.502 --> 32:41.800 away either , but the 32:42.410 --> 32:45.359 treatment and the ability to also know 32:45.599 --> 32:47.932 that my career wasn't gonna be impacted . 32:47.959 --> 32:50.500 What is my future gonna be all of those 32:50.510 --> 32:53.719 things together ? Had a rapid 32:53.729 --> 32:56.040 turnaround . I can tell you in the span 32:56.050 --> 32:58.280 of two months I went from where I was 32:58.969 --> 33:01.080 to , I actually did get the divorce . 33:01.080 --> 33:03.302 It was about November 2014 if my memory 33:03.302 --> 33:07.300 serves . Um , but I had a future 33:07.310 --> 33:09.199 to look forward to because that's 33:09.199 --> 33:11.366 another thing you don't think about is 33:11.366 --> 33:13.421 a lot of suicide victims or a lot of 33:13.421 --> 33:15.477 people that go into major depression 33:15.477 --> 33:17.532 can't see a future regardless of all 33:17.532 --> 33:19.643 those , uh , signposting . And , um , 33:19.643 --> 33:21.754 all the , the signs that are going on 33:21.754 --> 33:25.310 actually feeling this kind of , um , 33:25.329 --> 33:27.719 everybody is different . But the two 33:27.729 --> 33:29.896 things that stood out for me was how I 33:29.896 --> 33:31.729 could not enjoy anything and the 33:31.729 --> 33:33.959 ability to not see a clear path in 33:33.969 --> 33:35.859 front of me , not to plan for the 33:35.869 --> 33:38.849 future . That seemed impossible that 33:38.859 --> 33:40.970 there was always something in the way 33:40.970 --> 33:43.192 and it wasn't even rational things that 33:43.192 --> 33:45.415 were in the way that there was no point 33:45.589 --> 33:48.810 to plan for the future . So those 33:48.819 --> 33:51.097 things are turning around is , is this , 33:51.097 --> 33:52.763 where is this , you mentioned 33:52.763 --> 33:54.986 spirituality at the beginning of this , 33:54.986 --> 33:57.097 is this where spirituality started to 33:57.097 --> 33:59.152 help you or what , what tools , what 33:59.152 --> 34:00.708 other things were you doing 34:00.708 --> 34:02.819 individually ? I mean , you had you , 34:02.819 --> 34:02.689 you had a , a strong network around you 34:02.699 --> 34:04.810 regarding , you mentioned your family 34:04.810 --> 34:06.810 in the Air Force , which was huge . 34:06.869 --> 34:09.110 What did you start doing individually ? 34:09.569 --> 34:11.791 Um because it , it seems to me you work 34:11.791 --> 34:13.958 through this in a very short period of 34:13.958 --> 34:16.069 time , very much . So . Um So I'm I'm 34:16.069 --> 34:18.236 just curious like , what can you share 34:18.236 --> 34:20.569 with us this , this kind of foreshadows , 34:20.569 --> 34:22.736 what I want to talk about in the and I 34:22.736 --> 34:24.680 hope to , to at least talk about a 34:24.680 --> 34:26.902 little bit during this podcast . And is 34:26.902 --> 34:28.902 those pillars of resilience ? I can 34:28.902 --> 34:31.069 tell you looking back from an educated 34:31.069 --> 34:33.830 analysis of what happened in my life 34:33.840 --> 34:37.000 that I almost was deficient in every 34:37.010 --> 34:38.788 single one of those . I was not 34:38.788 --> 34:41.121 somebody who liked to be physically fit . 34:41.121 --> 34:43.232 I did the minimum that I had to do to 34:43.232 --> 34:45.454 get past and I had multiple pt failures 34:45.454 --> 34:47.566 in Alaska and it wasn't for a lack of 34:47.566 --> 34:49.621 trying . It was just shift work plus 34:50.060 --> 34:52.171 nine months of winter , regardless of 34:52.171 --> 34:54.338 how much you go to the , go to the gym 34:54.338 --> 34:56.504 and with a waist measurement , it , it 34:56.504 --> 34:58.393 was , it was tough for me . So it 34:58.393 --> 35:00.671 wasn't something that I was , you know , 35:00.671 --> 35:00.090 really good at . So my physical 35:00.100 --> 35:02.399 resiliency was not , not the best . It 35:02.409 --> 35:05.110 wasn't , I wasn't bad but I , I wasn't 35:05.120 --> 35:07.540 the best . I wasn't , I wasn't where I 35:07.550 --> 35:10.159 should be . I didn't , like I said , 35:10.169 --> 35:12.391 have a network around me . That network 35:12.391 --> 35:14.169 came into play . It made itself 35:14.169 --> 35:16.280 available . So I didn't have that . I 35:16.280 --> 35:18.510 didn't have that pillar . I didn't have 35:18.520 --> 35:20.853 a spiritual pillar because I'm agnostic , 35:20.870 --> 35:22.926 uh , an atheist to a certain point . 35:23.229 --> 35:25.340 But you talk about the spiritualism . 35:25.340 --> 35:27.507 Oddly enough , the spiritualism that I 35:27.507 --> 35:29.562 got at that time that , um , since I 35:29.562 --> 35:31.618 had the family and I started getting 35:31.618 --> 35:33.673 physically fit , actually when I was 35:33.673 --> 35:35.840 there because I was worried about a PT 35:35.840 --> 35:37.840 test that was in December . Um , my 35:37.840 --> 35:40.919 wife's daughter , my daughter now , um , 35:41.189 --> 35:44.709 was about 2 , 2.5 years old and I found 35:44.719 --> 35:46.830 something in her because we started , 35:46.830 --> 35:48.830 we started our dialogue while I was 35:48.830 --> 35:48.750 going through this . It was a weird 35:48.760 --> 35:50.871 thing . Um I was getting divorced . I 35:50.871 --> 35:52.982 went back home for that intel support 35:52.982 --> 35:55.093 to force protection , TDY . And I ran 35:55.093 --> 35:57.093 into her and her and I just started 35:57.093 --> 35:59.149 talking as friends and she had a two 35:59.149 --> 36:01.316 year old daughter and she was a single 36:01.316 --> 36:01.169 mother and things like that . And I 36:01.179 --> 36:05.149 just found the joy in talking to Emma 36:05.669 --> 36:08.709 um became my spirit , spiritual guide 36:08.719 --> 36:11.889 was the just the joy for life and the 36:11.899 --> 36:14.209 discovery and the idea of something so 36:14.219 --> 36:17.489 pure , keeping myself 36:17.500 --> 36:21.239 alive to watch that unfurl 36:21.610 --> 36:23.443 that became my spiritual guiding 36:23.443 --> 36:26.050 regardless of it was cognizant at the 36:26.060 --> 36:28.116 time or not . That's what I think it 36:28.116 --> 36:30.449 was , it gave you a meaning and purpose , 36:30.449 --> 36:32.449 right ? And I think that's , that's 36:32.449 --> 36:34.449 what you're kind of conveying right 36:34.449 --> 36:36.616 there by looking at her and seeing you 36:36.616 --> 36:38.838 want to see her grow , you wanted to be 36:38.838 --> 36:40.893 part of developing her and just that 36:40.893 --> 36:42.838 gave you life that you didn't have 36:42.838 --> 36:45.060 before . Yeah , it's , it's amazing how 36:45.060 --> 36:47.116 these four pillars . And again , I , 36:47.116 --> 36:49.227 you and I never had even a discussion 36:49.227 --> 36:51.282 prior to this podcast how these four 36:51.282 --> 36:53.393 pillars are just um they're , they're 36:53.393 --> 36:55.850 not just randomly thrown out there for 36:55.860 --> 36:58.082 the Air Force . And by the way , do you 36:58.082 --> 37:00.304 know all the other branches of services 37:00.304 --> 37:00.050 have the same four pillars ? I came 37:00.060 --> 37:02.393 from the army . So we have them as well , 37:02.393 --> 37:04.504 and I think too often we just kind of 37:04.504 --> 37:06.727 throw them out there as like fitness do 37:06.727 --> 37:08.838 PT test . That's way more than that . 37:08.838 --> 37:10.838 These are lifestyle pillars that we 37:10.838 --> 37:13.004 need to work into our being and who we 37:13.004 --> 37:15.227 are . Um Because when we do that look , 37:15.227 --> 37:17.282 you're , you're a perfect example of 37:17.282 --> 37:16.929 that , you just mentioned that you 37:16.939 --> 37:19.050 didn't have fitness , you didn't have 37:19.050 --> 37:20.883 the social , you didn't have the 37:20.883 --> 37:23.050 spiritual , you were going through the 37:23.050 --> 37:25.161 mental , right ? But you're where you 37:25.161 --> 37:27.272 are today because now you have a plan 37:27.272 --> 37:29.328 around these four areas of your life 37:29.328 --> 37:31.495 and you're not complicating it to be , 37:31.495 --> 37:33.383 oh my gosh , I gotta do my mental 37:33.383 --> 37:35.661 resiliency today . No , you just , you , 37:35.661 --> 37:37.883 you live life accordingly to these four 37:37.883 --> 37:40.290 areas and it makes you the best you , 37:40.300 --> 37:42.830 so you could be the best you for airmen 37:42.840 --> 37:44.896 that are below you next to you above 37:44.896 --> 37:46.896 you so that you're able to actually 37:46.896 --> 37:49.007 reciprocate um what your , your folks 37:49.007 --> 37:51.007 did on active duty for you when you 37:51.007 --> 37:53.007 were going through this hard time . 37:53.007 --> 37:55.173 Absolutely . And I don't treat them as 37:55.173 --> 37:57.229 a religion in the sense that I think 37:57.229 --> 37:59.340 that they're different to everybody . 37:59.340 --> 38:01.062 But I can identify where I was 38:01.062 --> 38:05.030 predispositioned for a disaster based 38:05.040 --> 38:07.096 on not having these strong pillars . 38:07.096 --> 38:08.873 Would I have still gone through 38:08.873 --> 38:10.984 depression and still might have , you 38:10.984 --> 38:13.096 know , encountered those i ideas of , 38:13.096 --> 38:15.318 of , of suicide and thoughts of suicide 38:15.318 --> 38:17.484 to the point where I bought a rope and 38:17.484 --> 38:19.540 thought I was gonna do it . It might 38:19.540 --> 38:21.959 have happened , but I would have had 38:21.969 --> 38:23.969 something to bounce back . It would 38:23.969 --> 38:26.810 have been easier to recover . And 38:26.820 --> 38:29.320 without those strong pillars or at 38:29.330 --> 38:31.429 least three or two or any of them , 38:31.949 --> 38:35.610 you're gonna crash . And it really , in 38:35.620 --> 38:37.731 the , in the grand scheme of things , 38:37.731 --> 38:41.389 the ability to at 38:41.429 --> 38:43.318 least work on one of them or , or 38:43.318 --> 38:45.530 decide that those are yours . Uh Those 38:45.540 --> 38:47.762 are things that you can do for yourself 38:47.762 --> 38:50.000 to make yourself the better you really 38:50.010 --> 38:52.066 is , is everything that I've done in 38:52.066 --> 38:54.121 the last 10 years , whether it was a 38:54.121 --> 38:56.260 cognizant choice or not , has really 38:56.270 --> 38:58.185 led in that path because of this 38:58.195 --> 39:01.334 experience because I don't want 39:01.495 --> 39:04.185 myself or anyone else to have to feel 39:04.445 --> 39:07.985 that depth of despair and 39:07.995 --> 39:11.155 basically have to touch the ideas to , 39:11.165 --> 39:14.709 to , to want , um to not be here 39:14.719 --> 39:16.830 anymore because I would have not done 39:16.830 --> 39:18.997 the amazing things that I've gotten to 39:18.997 --> 39:21.219 do . I would have not been able to help 39:21.219 --> 39:21.159 the people and I also would not have 39:21.169 --> 39:23.447 brought another person into this world . 39:23.447 --> 39:25.560 Yeah . Yeah . Well , and for those of 39:25.570 --> 39:27.626 you that are listening , you , you , 39:27.626 --> 39:29.848 you , you're not gonna see or you , you 39:29.848 --> 39:31.959 know , prior to , um where we are now 39:31.959 --> 39:34.419 in the state of the podcast when Sean 39:34.429 --> 39:36.318 was talking about um how you were 39:36.318 --> 39:38.485 feeling back in , in the time you were 39:38.485 --> 39:40.429 having your , you know , the , the 39:40.429 --> 39:42.596 struggle you got , you got emotional . 39:42.596 --> 39:44.373 Obviously , it's still , it has 39:44.373 --> 39:46.540 impacted you and that that's something 39:46.540 --> 39:48.651 that you , we need to keep using to , 39:48.651 --> 39:50.873 to move us forward , right ? To keep us 39:50.873 --> 39:52.929 focused . And so you guys didn't see 39:52.929 --> 39:55.151 that , but it , it , it still obviously 39:55.151 --> 39:57.040 has impacted him . And um I think 39:57.040 --> 39:56.709 there's something good about it . You 39:56.719 --> 39:58.719 know , there's something good about 39:58.719 --> 40:00.830 communicating your story , doing what 40:00.830 --> 40:00.639 you're doing right now is cathartic . I 40:00.649 --> 40:03.020 know it is and it's not only for you , 40:03.090 --> 40:04.923 but you know how many people are 40:04.923 --> 40:06.923 listening to this that you're gonna 40:06.923 --> 40:08.979 help today ? You know , I , I , I'll 40:08.979 --> 40:11.146 tell you that , um I was gonna ask you 40:11.146 --> 40:13.368 to and I'm still going to do this , but 40:13.368 --> 40:15.368 I was gonna ask you to target young 40:15.368 --> 40:17.368 folks that might be struggling with 40:17.368 --> 40:19.257 trying to get a rhythm . But this 40:19.257 --> 40:21.090 doesn't apply to young . It , it 40:21.090 --> 40:23.034 applies to everybody , your , your 40:23.034 --> 40:25.146 airman who is in student flight right 40:25.146 --> 40:27.312 now to the colonel , the general who's 40:27.312 --> 40:29.257 about to retire could be somewhere 40:29.257 --> 40:30.979 missing one of these things or 40:30.979 --> 40:33.201 struggling with something . So I'll ask 40:33.201 --> 40:35.257 you as a senior NCO who's lived with 40:35.257 --> 40:37.479 this experience and he's thriving right 40:37.479 --> 40:39.646 now and doing great work . What , what 40:39.646 --> 40:39.169 are some things as we , we kind of 40:39.179 --> 40:41.570 close here today that you would offer 40:41.580 --> 40:43.580 up maybe in , in each of these four 40:43.580 --> 40:45.830 areas that , that they , they could 40:45.840 --> 40:47.951 begin doing right now if they're just 40:47.951 --> 40:50.062 like in a rut and you're stuck , they 40:50.062 --> 40:52.118 don't know what to do next . Can you 40:52.118 --> 40:54.173 offer some ? Yeah , some resources . 40:54.173 --> 40:56.709 Absolutely . So from a recent uh from 40:56.719 --> 40:58.608 an in individual standpoint , not 40:58.608 --> 41:00.775 necessarily resources . Cause I'll get 41:00.775 --> 41:02.775 to that point . I think the easiest 41:02.775 --> 41:04.997 thing that I could say is set the goals 41:04.997 --> 41:07.163 for yourself that are related to these 41:07.163 --> 41:09.330 four pillars physically . For myself . 41:09.330 --> 41:11.689 This year , I was telling uh uh master 41:11.699 --> 41:13.643 and Duke Elliott uh Harmon , right 41:13.643 --> 41:15.532 before this , when we were having 41:15.532 --> 41:17.643 breakfast , he was so good to take me 41:17.643 --> 41:17.239 out to breakfast before the podcast . 41:17.250 --> 41:19.417 So shout out to him , Duke's the man . 41:19.800 --> 41:22.770 He , I was telling him that all the 41:22.780 --> 41:25.113 great things that I was doing this year . 41:25.113 --> 41:27.336 And he's like , oh , well , why are you 41:27.336 --> 41:27.159 doing all these things ? And I said , I 41:27.169 --> 41:29.336 haven't told anybody this yet , but at 41:29.336 --> 41:31.336 the beginning of this year , I said 41:31.459 --> 41:34.120 individual goals , not , not just like 41:34.129 --> 41:36.351 your , not just like your , your annual 41:36.351 --> 41:38.573 goal that you do on New Year's and then 41:38.573 --> 41:40.407 we accomplish some of them don't 41:40.407 --> 41:42.573 accomplish . I made a cognizant choice 41:42.573 --> 41:45.500 to pick goals related to resiliency to 41:45.510 --> 41:47.770 see if I can do them for my . So here 41:47.780 --> 41:50.002 in about 30 days , I'm gonna be running 41:50.002 --> 41:52.870 the uh the Marine Corps marathon and uh 41:52.979 --> 41:55.639 i it's gonna hurt and I am nowhere near 41:55.649 --> 41:57.760 where I should be , but I'm gonna get 41:57.760 --> 42:00.459 it done and uh it's gonna be 14 minute 42:00.469 --> 42:02.691 pace . But um I mean , I can run a half 42:02.691 --> 42:04.913 marathon but all the other things I did 42:04.913 --> 42:06.691 this year did kind of impact my 42:06.691 --> 42:08.913 training plan . So that was one thing , 42:08.913 --> 42:11.080 that's my physical goal . That's a guy 42:11.080 --> 42:13.080 who didn't run more than a five K , 42:13.080 --> 42:15.080 three years ago trying to get at 37 42:15.080 --> 42:17.136 years old to a Marine Corps marathon 42:17.136 --> 42:19.302 just because to see if I can do it and 42:19.302 --> 42:21.469 hopefully inspire myself to stay alive 42:21.469 --> 42:24.500 longer . Um , physically , the second 42:24.510 --> 42:26.288 part of it was to find out what 42:26.288 --> 42:28.439 spiritually motivated me . And , uh , 42:28.729 --> 42:31.179 and oddly enough , it's still the same 42:31.189 --> 42:34.169 thing . It's been since Emma saved my 42:34.179 --> 42:36.790 life 10 years ago . And it's my family 42:36.800 --> 42:38.909 and it's um the people that I serve 42:38.919 --> 42:41.086 every day at the one a third A OG , as 42:41.086 --> 42:43.197 well as uh Pennsylvania International 42:43.197 --> 42:46.419 Guard . Those people are the reason I 42:46.429 --> 42:48.899 get up every day and do what I do . Um 42:48.909 --> 42:50.909 because they make me , they give me 42:50.909 --> 42:53.229 purpose . Uh It's not because I feel 42:53.239 --> 42:57.179 like , um that I want to be better than 42:57.189 --> 42:59.300 anyone else or that I want to rise to 42:59.300 --> 43:01.356 the top of this , of the hierarchy . 43:01.389 --> 43:03.899 And that , that is a cliche . It's the 43:03.909 --> 43:07.050 fact that the purpose in my life is to 43:07.060 --> 43:09.060 continue to do my job . Some people 43:09.060 --> 43:11.116 call that a workaholic . Some people 43:11.116 --> 43:13.338 call that other things . But that's the 43:13.338 --> 43:12.979 spiritual thing that , that gets to me . 43:13.060 --> 43:15.282 And as long as I have those I can think 43:15.282 --> 43:17.393 of when I'm running in the marathon , 43:17.393 --> 43:17.290 I'll think in the back of my head . 43:17.300 --> 43:19.411 I'll think my daughter will be like , 43:19.411 --> 43:21.578 if my daughter was in danger , I could 43:21.578 --> 43:23.578 do this for five minutes . I can do 43:23.578 --> 43:25.911 anything for 10 minutes , sort of thing . 43:25.911 --> 43:27.967 And then when it comes to the social 43:27.967 --> 43:29.967 and mental aspect , the mental part 43:29.967 --> 43:32.078 I'll get to last because that's who I 43:32.078 --> 43:31.790 want to shout out at the end of this . 43:32.199 --> 43:35.419 But the social aspect was trying to do 43:35.429 --> 43:39.350 a better job of being inclusionary 43:39.439 --> 43:41.909 um when it comes to our unit . So this 43:41.919 --> 43:43.919 year I had the benefit and this has 43:43.919 --> 43:46.141 nothing to do with me . This was , this 43:46.141 --> 43:48.197 was saying yes , the power of yes to 43:48.197 --> 43:50.363 all the opportunities to do stuff with 43:50.363 --> 43:50.350 our NATO partners , all the 43:50.360 --> 43:52.582 opportunities to do stuff with our Penn 43:52.582 --> 43:54.693 State partners with our Army National 43:54.693 --> 43:58.270 Guard partners and trying to help build 43:58.280 --> 44:01.149 better relationships and uh trying to 44:01.159 --> 44:03.326 add utility because I'm a person , I'm 44:03.326 --> 44:05.381 a totalitarian by heart . If anybody 44:05.381 --> 44:07.492 out there doesn't have to Google that 44:07.492 --> 44:09.715 word , but I , I believe in utility . I 44:09.715 --> 44:12.399 believe in things that you can use to 44:12.409 --> 44:14.409 move your way forward . It's a good 44:14.409 --> 44:16.465 thing to have a vision . It's a good 44:16.465 --> 44:16.070 thing to have an objective . But if you 44:16.080 --> 44:18.520 don't have the tools to get it done and 44:18.530 --> 44:20.752 I and me as an NCO can't give you those 44:20.752 --> 44:23.270 tools , then what good am I ? So my 44:23.280 --> 44:26.459 social connection creating paths for 44:26.469 --> 44:29.500 everyone to do what we're here to do 44:29.510 --> 44:31.621 and that is to defend this nation and 44:31.621 --> 44:34.330 defend the commonwealth . So that , 44:34.340 --> 44:36.507 that is my social aspect . It's , it's 44:36.507 --> 44:39.629 more social as in um organization , 44:39.639 --> 44:41.830 organization and personable than it is 44:41.840 --> 44:44.300 the , let's say social culture , but it , 44:44.310 --> 44:46.477 but it is social and then the last one 44:46.477 --> 44:48.790 is the mental and this is something 44:48.800 --> 44:50.967 that bleeds from this year and this is 44:50.967 --> 44:53.320 more um kind of a , a thing and I have 44:53.330 --> 44:55.510 a patch on my arm . Uh , if anyone has 44:55.520 --> 44:57.742 been to the resiliency website or knows 44:57.742 --> 44:59.687 about holistic , uh , airman or uh 44:59.687 --> 45:01.409 comprehensive airman fitness , 45:01.409 --> 45:03.464 hopefully has seen the Fortified The 45:03.464 --> 45:05.576 Force Initiative , uh , that has been 45:05.576 --> 45:05.530 endorsed by the , by the Chief Mas 45:05.629 --> 45:07.685 Sergeant of the Air Force as well as 45:07.685 --> 45:10.429 our , um , uh General Brown on our way 45:10.439 --> 45:13.520 out in the last two years and is 45:13.530 --> 45:15.363 fortify , the force is really an 45:15.363 --> 45:18.270 organic organization , not focus 45:18.280 --> 45:20.699 necessarily on doing what everyone else 45:20.909 --> 45:23.131 either is mandated to do or hopes to do 45:23.131 --> 45:25.610 within our military infrastructure . Um , 45:25.620 --> 45:27.560 because there are so many great 45:27.570 --> 45:29.949 resources out there and there are so 45:29.959 --> 45:31.959 many great people within the unit , 45:31.959 --> 45:33.792 whether it be a first sergeant , 45:33.792 --> 45:33.689 whether it be a chaplain , whether it 45:33.699 --> 45:36.169 be the DPH , whether it be our mental 45:36.179 --> 45:39.030 health professionals or your NCO , that 45:39.040 --> 45:41.207 makes the pivotal moment in my life to 45:41.207 --> 45:43.239 change my life . That's the one I 45:43.250 --> 45:45.649 wanted to focus on is the NCO that was 45:45.659 --> 45:48.850 in my life that changed my life . 45:49.459 --> 45:51.709 And we've done a lot over the last 10 45:51.719 --> 45:55.280 years to help open up the aperture to 45:55.290 --> 45:57.457 focus on mental health and provide all 45:57.457 --> 45:59.512 the opportunities and get rid of the 45:59.512 --> 46:01.679 stigma and even even add mandatory 46:01.689 --> 46:04.629 training that has mixed signals . Um 46:04.840 --> 46:07.459 from a lot of people , this is 46:07.469 --> 46:09.580 organically looking at the people who 46:09.580 --> 46:11.802 are passionate about helping within the 46:11.802 --> 46:15.189 ranks and to propagate good mental 46:15.199 --> 46:17.088 health and resiliency through the 46:17.088 --> 46:19.088 pillars . These are people who have 46:19.088 --> 46:21.110 either be experienced mental health 46:21.120 --> 46:23.250 problems or suicide ideations or 46:23.260 --> 46:25.204 somebody who has a family member , 46:25.204 --> 46:27.371 someone within the ranks that wants to 46:27.371 --> 46:29.530 explore what they have and be that 46:29.540 --> 46:31.484 sounding board to be the next tech 46:31.484 --> 46:33.596 sergeant Waddell who saved somebody's 46:33.596 --> 46:35.818 life and , and may never know what kind 46:35.818 --> 46:37.873 of impact they made because we never 46:37.873 --> 46:39.873 saw him again . Uh If I ever put on 46:39.873 --> 46:41.929 senior or chief , I can tell you who 46:41.929 --> 46:44.096 I'm going to try to find to go to my , 46:44.096 --> 46:46.850 my ceremony is gonna be that NCO and 46:46.860 --> 46:49.027 share this podcast with him beforehand 46:49.027 --> 46:50.860 too . To , just to , to whet his 46:50.860 --> 46:53.082 appetite . You know what I mean to prep 46:53.082 --> 46:55.360 him for it . Seriously . Yeah . So the , 46:55.360 --> 46:57.304 the tool sets that , that you were 46:57.304 --> 46:59.527 asking me about . Absolutely . Use your 46:59.527 --> 47:01.749 military one source . Absolutely . Open 47:01.749 --> 47:03.860 up your Air Force connect app and hit 47:03.860 --> 47:06.027 the resiliency button or , or get with 47:06.027 --> 47:05.750 your first sergeants , get with your 47:05.760 --> 47:08.250 DPHS . Get with your chaplains about 47:08.260 --> 47:11.750 the re the plethora and myriad of , of 47:11.760 --> 47:13.704 different resiliency items and get 47:13.704 --> 47:16.709 involved . You don't have to do this 47:16.719 --> 47:18.830 necessarily because your chain of 47:18.840 --> 47:20.951 command wants you to or you feel like 47:20.951 --> 47:22.896 you're getting behind in something 47:22.896 --> 47:24.899 because it's not about necessarily 47:24.909 --> 47:27.679 about keeping yourself from being um 47:27.860 --> 47:31.360 mentally unfit or keeping yourself um , 47:31.500 --> 47:34.510 or passing your PT test . It is about 47:34.520 --> 47:36.870 making sure that you have the ability 47:36.879 --> 47:39.699 to adapt to anything more than anything 47:39.709 --> 47:41.765 in this air force . We are trying to 47:41.765 --> 47:43.653 adapt , overcome , accelerate and 47:43.653 --> 47:46.649 change . And if you are not resilient , 47:47.030 --> 47:49.141 those things are never gonna happen , 47:49.330 --> 47:51.163 they are never gonna come to you 47:51.163 --> 47:53.330 because you're gonna be doing too much 47:53.330 --> 47:55.497 and you're never gonna be able to fall 47:55.497 --> 47:57.608 back on anything . So taking the time 47:57.608 --> 47:59.830 to take a walk and to clear your head , 47:59.830 --> 48:01.941 taking the time for 30 minutes to run 48:01.941 --> 48:04.052 when you don't wanna run , taking the 48:04.052 --> 48:04.020 time to talk to somebody else to build 48:04.030 --> 48:07.560 better relationships and then also 48:07.820 --> 48:10.760 paying that service forward . That's 48:10.770 --> 48:12.937 what I want to say . Fortify the force 48:12.937 --> 48:15.103 is gonna do and in the grand scheme of 48:15.103 --> 48:17.326 things , my , my , my last goal for the 48:17.326 --> 48:19.548 year is to stop playing lip service and 48:19.548 --> 48:21.437 to actually do something and take 48:21.437 --> 48:23.714 action . So I'm trying , uh personally , 48:23.714 --> 48:25.770 I'm trying to put together the first 48:25.770 --> 48:27.937 Pennsylvania um chapter of Fortify the 48:27.937 --> 48:30.010 Force . So anybody , absolutely that 48:30.020 --> 48:32.187 hears this podcast can reach out to me 48:32.187 --> 48:34.298 via email . It's not something that's 48:34.298 --> 48:36.409 organized yet . I'm , um , you know , 48:36.409 --> 48:38.409 it's a brainchild , I went to a FAA 48:38.409 --> 48:40.409 couple of weeks ago and I talked to 48:40.409 --> 48:42.520 their leadership for 45 minutes and , 48:42.520 --> 48:44.687 and finally stopped thinking that this 48:44.687 --> 48:46.798 was just something I would love to do 48:46.798 --> 48:48.964 and something I'm going to do . Well , 48:48.964 --> 48:51.131 you know what , throw out there , your 48:51.131 --> 48:53.353 uh your email if you want to go ahead . 48:53.353 --> 48:55.409 Uh My email is uh Shawn , so Sean uh 48:55.409 --> 48:57.576 spelled the right way . Uh So Sean dot 48:57.576 --> 49:00.800 Jacobs 0.6 at us dot A 49:00.810 --> 49:03.469 f.mil . Um definitely in the global . 49:03.510 --> 49:05.510 Uh if you , if you know Duke Carmen 49:05.510 --> 49:07.454 here at the 111 , he'll get you in 49:07.454 --> 49:09.621 touch with me , you know , major rep , 49:09.621 --> 49:11.788 I'm sure somebody can , can get you my 49:11.788 --> 49:11.739 contact information because I know 49:11.750 --> 49:13.694 there's , there's 5000 people that 49:13.694 --> 49:15.750 follow their web page . There's 10 , 49:15.750 --> 49:17.861 tens of thousands of people that have 49:17.861 --> 49:19.972 seen the resiliency web page . And if 49:19.972 --> 49:19.800 they scroll down the whole way to the 49:19.810 --> 49:21.866 bottom , they'll see the fortify the 49:21.866 --> 49:25.149 force . Unfortunately , it's still , 49:25.159 --> 49:27.492 you know , it's an organic organization . 49:27.492 --> 49:29.659 It is not something mandated by dod by 49:29.659 --> 49:31.881 the Department of the Air Force . It is 49:31.881 --> 49:34.048 something that is trying regardless of 49:34.048 --> 49:37.919 being sponsored to propagate itself 49:37.929 --> 49:40.096 in a , in a , in a heavy demand signal 49:40.096 --> 49:42.770 world . But I think it's simple enough , 49:42.860 --> 49:45.729 it's something that gets people 49:45.739 --> 49:48.229 involved but doesn't necessarily ask so 49:48.239 --> 49:51.090 much of them . It's more than in , in , 49:51.100 --> 49:52.933 you know , incurring your normal 49:52.933 --> 49:55.156 suicide prevention training once a year 49:55.156 --> 49:57.378 or thinking about mental health when it 49:57.378 --> 49:59.433 comes to your PM E or other things . 49:59.433 --> 50:01.433 It's an ability for you to at least 50:01.433 --> 50:03.656 talk to somebody about a person because 50:03.656 --> 50:05.322 it could be even just an open 50:05.322 --> 50:07.489 conversation , be like I have somebody 50:07.489 --> 50:09.544 in this situation . What can I do to 50:09.544 --> 50:11.767 help you ? Because I don't know , I can 50:11.767 --> 50:13.878 talk to my first surgeon . I can talk 50:13.878 --> 50:15.933 to my chaplain . But you're an intel 50:15.933 --> 50:18.044 professional who has dealt with the , 50:19.459 --> 50:22.189 the idioms or not idioms . But the um 50:22.949 --> 50:25.116 the misconceptions of what this can do 50:25.116 --> 50:27.282 to your , your clearance , your career 50:27.282 --> 50:29.229 as an operator . And , and just 50:29.830 --> 50:32.810 convince me that I need to ask those 50:32.820 --> 50:35.050 questions because it may be that 50:35.219 --> 50:38.080 fortify the force.org again , fortify 50:38.090 --> 50:40.350 the force.org is the , is the site if 50:40.360 --> 50:42.360 you haven't been there . And that's 50:42.360 --> 50:44.416 what Sean's referencing here . Um Go 50:44.416 --> 50:46.582 ahead and take a look and , and look , 50:46.582 --> 50:48.804 iii I love the fact too . Um You hit on 50:48.804 --> 50:50.971 these four pillars and I think this is 50:50.971 --> 50:53.193 why it's important for us to be setting 50:53.193 --> 50:55.304 goals around them as we as again , as 50:55.304 --> 50:57.582 we truly close up this podcast . And I , 50:57.582 --> 50:59.471 I , again , there's so much great 50:59.471 --> 51:01.582 information , transparency leadership 51:01.582 --> 51:03.693 that you display just by sitting here 51:03.693 --> 51:05.804 and doing this . Um If you again , if 51:05.804 --> 51:07.916 you have any desire to get involved , 51:07.916 --> 51:10.082 reach out to Sean , he threw his email 51:10.082 --> 51:12.249 out there . Look him up in Global Sean 51:12.249 --> 51:14.360 Jacobs , Messer and Sean Jacobs . And 51:14.360 --> 51:16.304 um these four pillars though , the 51:16.304 --> 51:18.304 difference between you having goals 51:18.304 --> 51:20.193 around them and working and doing 51:20.193 --> 51:22.360 something um with them is when you hit 51:22.360 --> 51:24.471 the brick wall because listen , you , 51:24.471 --> 51:26.416 you're listening to this podcast , 51:26.416 --> 51:28.638 every one of us is going to hit a brick 51:28.638 --> 51:30.860 wall . It's going to happen how high it 51:30.860 --> 51:33.027 is , how thick it is , how big I can't 51:33.027 --> 51:35.082 tell you that , but we don't want to 51:35.082 --> 51:36.971 hit that brick wall and have zero 51:36.971 --> 51:39.379 ability to get through it . And this is 51:39.389 --> 51:41.949 why these four pillars give us some 51:41.959 --> 51:45.149 tools . So when we hit it , we know how 51:45.159 --> 51:47.870 and where and why to work through it . 51:47.879 --> 51:49.990 And I think that's the most important 51:49.990 --> 51:52.046 thing in this whole whole process is 51:52.046 --> 51:54.157 not that we will not face adversity , 51:54.157 --> 51:56.379 guys , we will face adversity . This is 51:56.379 --> 51:59.139 to help us get through overcome , pay 51:59.149 --> 52:01.316 it forward by helping other airmen out 52:01.316 --> 52:03.538 other family members out so that we can 52:03.538 --> 52:06.179 move forward and be the best selves 52:06.189 --> 52:08.411 that we can be . Right ? And so , hey , 52:08.411 --> 52:10.467 Sean again , I really appreciate you 52:10.467 --> 52:12.633 coming down here being transparent and 52:12.633 --> 52:14.578 sharing your story and I'm looking 52:14.578 --> 52:16.411 forward to this podcast um being 52:16.411 --> 52:18.522 released . We'll make sure that , you 52:18.522 --> 52:20.633 know , you know , share it with the 1 52:20.633 --> 52:22.856 93rd . We obviously do that here at the 52:22.856 --> 52:24.745 1/11 . I wanna get this to senior 52:24.745 --> 52:26.856 leaders here . Maybe even at N GB , I 52:26.856 --> 52:28.967 know N GB has listened to the podcast 52:28.967 --> 52:31.078 as well . If this could help just one 52:31.078 --> 52:33.245 airman , man , you , you , you've done 52:33.245 --> 52:35.356 your job and , uh , I really hope one 52:35.356 --> 52:37.578 day you get to connect with your , your 52:37.578 --> 52:39.633 tech sergeant there at some point so 52:39.633 --> 52:39.469 you could thank him and thank those 52:39.479 --> 52:41.649 that literally saved your life . 52:41.659 --> 52:43.870 Absolutely . And , and that , if I had 52:43.879 --> 52:45.546 to end on one thing , I would 52:45.546 --> 52:49.139 absolutely try to say that as an NCO , 52:49.149 --> 52:51.260 as an airman , as an individual and a 52:51.260 --> 52:53.959 human , we are all responsible for each 52:53.969 --> 52:57.560 other and the impact that you make 52:58.610 --> 53:00.610 is more than you'll ever know . And 53:00.620 --> 53:02.870 like I said , I've never gotten to go 53:02.879 --> 53:05.439 back . I did thank that tech sergeant 53:05.449 --> 53:08.350 and I did absolutely co convey that to 53:08.360 --> 53:10.527 his chain of command on my out brief . 53:10.527 --> 53:12.582 That's what I said is that I , I sat 53:12.582 --> 53:14.749 down with the , the squadron commander 53:14.749 --> 53:16.971 at the end and said , hey , how can you 53:16.971 --> 53:18.971 recognize this individual ? Because 53:18.971 --> 53:21.082 what I didn't talk about was I got to 53:21.082 --> 53:20.689 come to the world's greatest Air 53:20.699 --> 53:22.810 National Guard here in Pennsylvania . 53:22.810 --> 53:24.921 After that fact , they enabled me and 53:24.921 --> 53:27.110 saw that , hey , you're coming to the 53:27.120 --> 53:29.570 end of your enlistment . The National 53:29.580 --> 53:31.747 Guard is there . We're not gonna try . 53:31.800 --> 53:34.129 We're gonna love if you'd stay , but we 53:34.139 --> 53:37.110 want you to move on and grow and heal . 53:37.229 --> 53:39.340 We know your family's back there . We 53:39.340 --> 53:41.451 know that's what you want to do . And 53:41.451 --> 53:43.673 they enabled me also that family , that 53:43.673 --> 53:45.840 support structure , that NCO Corps and 53:45.840 --> 53:47.729 that , that officer of leadership 53:47.729 --> 53:49.785 enabled me to make the transition to 53:49.785 --> 53:51.951 the National Guard where I didn't know 53:51.951 --> 53:54.118 I was going to be where I am now , but 53:54.118 --> 53:56.340 like thriving and thinking back on that 53:56.389 --> 53:58.500 and thinking of what a pivotal moment 53:58.500 --> 54:00.722 that you only have a few in your life . 54:00.722 --> 54:02.833 But that is the one that was affected 54:02.833 --> 54:05.209 by only one other person . Yeah . And 54:05.219 --> 54:07.219 use those moments in our lives that 54:07.219 --> 54:09.441 when we do run into difficulties , they 54:09.441 --> 54:11.419 are springboards for us . They are 54:11.429 --> 54:14.370 truly springboards to help us move 54:14.379 --> 54:16.712 forward in life . So again , Sean , hey , 54:16.712 --> 54:18.768 thanks so much for coming . Um Thank 54:18.768 --> 54:20.879 you for tuning in here to the Balance 54:20.879 --> 54:22.879 Podcast . Again , we try to deliver 54:22.879 --> 54:24.990 some content here that , um , it , it 54:24.990 --> 54:27.268 can change your life , the bottom line . 54:27.268 --> 54:29.490 Um That's what we're here to do . And , 54:29.490 --> 54:31.601 um , again , I hope you tune in , you 54:31.601 --> 54:33.823 continue to tune in and we'll , we'll , 54:33.823 --> 54:33.179 you know , more , more , more of a 54:33.189 --> 54:35.290 follow on just other great content 54:35.300 --> 54:37.078 surrounding those four areas of 54:37.078 --> 54:39.300 comprehensive air and fitness . Again , 54:39.300 --> 54:41.467 this is , uh chaplain Tony Repe at one 54:41.467 --> 54:43.578 left attack wing Biddle International 54:43.578 --> 54:45.522 Guard Base and we are out . Have a 54:45.522 --> 54:48.320 great day . Hey , this is Chapin Tony 54:48.330 --> 54:50.441 Repe here . I just want to remind you 54:50.441 --> 54:52.497 that this podcast does not imply any 54:52.497 --> 54:54.163 endorsement of any commercial 54:54.163 --> 54:56.330 organization , product or belief system .